For the last decade or so, Sarah McLachlan has been building a mystery — the mystery of when or even if she’d release newly written material. That might not have been intentional on her part, but it has been 11 years since “Shine On” came out, and while she never thought that she was completely done with record-making, the singer-songwriter did have some feelings in recent years that perhaps the next one she was gradually developing could be a swan song of sorts, at least in full album form. Fortunately, once she really got into making “Better Broken,” nothing about it seemed like a broken record to her, and McLachlan says she’s fallen back in love with the studio. That’s music to the ears of fans of one of popular music’s most beautiful voices, which shouldn’t only be heard reprising her classic “Fumbling Towards Ecstasy” album on a still-ongoing 30th anniversary tour.
The new “Better Broken” album, which comes out Sept. 19, deals with other affairs of the heart, including one particularly rough breakup and the more solid relationship that has supplanted it. But “Gravity,” a preview track that had a new video come out today, is about the love of family… and how that can be at least as harrowing as the romantic kind. McLachlan has already been playing “Gravity” at road shows and telling fans about how it reflects an emotional rift with one of her daughters that has since passed. Now a wider audience will get to hear and relate with this particularly revealing ballad.
McLachlan spoke with Variety about “Gravity” and what it means to her and her family to make this tune public, as well as the already-released title track for “Better Broken”; a forthcoming duet with Muna’s Katie Gavin; and some new material that laments the setbacks women are facing in the current sociopolitical climate.
You’ve been on a “Fumbling Towards Ecstasy” anniversary tour, but you also did a smaller, under-the-radar live show here In Los Angeles recently where you played most of your new songs live for some fans for the first time. What was it like to perform that much new stuff at once?
It was fantastic. As an artist, I always want to have new material to keep it interesting for me. I love my old songs and I’m happy to play them, but as much as I play live, I really enjoy having new stuff to bring new energy to the performance for me. I’m also fully aware that people don’t know the songs, so there’s not as much of an attachment, but for me, I’m deeply attached to these new songs, as I’ve been living and breathing them for the last year.
I love being in the studio and I love that process of discovery, of figuring out where the song needs and wants to go, and I just kind of fell in love with it all again. And it’s been 11 years since new material. I put out a Christmas record (2016’s “Wonderland”), but it doesn’t really count because even though there’s the production of it, someone else wrote the song, so it was pressing the easy button to a certain degree. And these songs were sort of a combination of the last 11 years — one might say 13, because “Better Broken” (the title track) actually was started 13 years ago and I forgot about it. When I was going through the archives, I pulled it out and played it for Tony and Will, and they’re like, “Why? Why’d you wait till the end to play us this one?” It’s like, “Well, because I kind of forgot about it.” But they’re all postcards of places I’ve been at in my life emotionally. And so it’s really sweet to be able to be on the other side of so much of this and just feel nothing but freedom and joy in performing them.
You’ve said that you had thought maybe this might be your last album, until once you got going on it and thought that, no, of course you want to do this regularly again. Does that accurately describe where you were at?
Yeah, I think you’re right. Being out of the game for so long and just not making new music, not being in that stream, I think I’m fully aware of what it takes to get back into the game after being out for a long time, too. And it’s a lot of work. But, you know, beats the hell out of digging ditches. I think I did have a lot of trepidation also just about how the world is, and the state of the world socially and how you say one thing wrong and you get canceled. So I was a little bit nervous about that because I don’t want to have to edit myself or be cautious about talking about the things I believe in, and that gave me pause, just (on top of) being out of the game for so long. But like you said, once I got back into the studio and started recording, I was reminded of how much I loved that process and thought, “What? That was ridiculous. Why would I say I’d never make another record again or never make music again?”
You worked with two new producers, Tony Berg and Will Maclellan. Was that something you did reluctantly at first or enthusiastically? Because you had kept your creative collaborations so close to the vest up till now.
You know, it’s like blind dating . I worked with Pierre (Marchand) for so many years and I love what we created. But I thought, if this is the last record I make, I feel like I owe it to myself to stretch myself and to step out of my comfort zone and work with other people. And I met Tony first and then Will after, but I just instantly had a great connection with him and felt that he was a musical encyclopedia. He’d worked with so many people in so many different genres of music and just had a wonderful sensibility about him. I remember playing him one song that had a number of different inversions and chord changes, and he sat down at the piano and played almost the entire thing back to me, after hearing it once, and said, “Well, what do you think about maybe putting a chord like this in that spot?” I was like, “Oh God, you just made the song better. Okay, this could be good.” And it just went from there. Both him and Will are so creative and so joyful about the process, and there’s no ego attached to it.
Let’s talk about the song “Gravity” specifically, as the single that is coming out this week. Why did that stick out to you as a song to advance the new album with?
I think it’s one of the strongest tracks, if not the strongest track, on the record. It’s highly emotional, and because I’ve had the opportunity to play it to other people for a year or two, the connection that people have had to it has been pretty immediate and intense. “Better Broken” was the first single, which was, if not that much of a departure, a little more kind of vibey and groovy. So this is sort of back to a little bit of the more traditional balladeering that I’m kind of known for. This felt like the strongest track, and I picked the three (pre-release singles) that seemed like the strongest and people had the most attachment to.
And I love playing this song because of the challenges that I went through with my firstborn daughter. It feels really sweet to be able to sing this song and know that we’re in such a better place, having come through this really challenging time together. (In a press statement, McLachlan said of the song: ““For a long time my daughter and I had a very combative and fraught relationship, and what I came to realize is that so much of what I perceived as obstinance or rage was actually masking a ton of anxiety on her part. We went to counseling together, and I learned that she felt so alone and unvalidated by me—which was devastating to hear, but it led us both to change the way we communicate with each other. I wrote ‘Gravity’ as a way of saying to her, ‘I’ve always loved you and want the best for you, and you’re perfect the way you are.’”)
We can assume, since this is about your relationship with your daughter, that you ran it by her and asked if she was fine if you talked about how it reflects the two of you?
Oh, absolutely. I played it for her and said, “Listen, how do you feel about me talking about this?” And she was like, “Oh, I’m completely fine with it.” And I mean, she’s a massive advocate for family systems counseling and is very open about what she’s gleaned from it. She talks about our experience as well — she’s very open about it. I continue to check in with her. Obviously I’m talking about it now and it’s gonna be out there, and I’m just going to check in again and say, “Hey, are you still cool with me discussing this, and in a very open manner?” Because it’s one thing for me to talk about the way I feel about something, but when you’re including someone else’s challenges in something that’s as public as this, yeah, I definitely want to keep making sure that she’s OK with it. But so far she said she’s fine with it.
When you are introducing it in concert and talk about how angry your daughter was at you for a long time, it’s easy to imagine a lot of the audience sitting there going, “What? Sarah McLachlan is an angel. I wish she was my mom.” So it’s probably good for people to hear that even people they idealize have challenges in their family relationships.
Absolutely. And I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about music as well, and the arts in general, is that something could be articulated that you can’t quite put your finger on, or you hear something or read something that makes you feel less alone. I mean, that’s one of the gifts that the arts provide. And for me, the feedback has been, “Oh my God, I have had such challenges with my daughter, too. This song just reminds me of that, but it also makes me feel grateful that I’m not alone in this.”
You said you picked three songs with which to preview the album, and “Better Broken” was first and “Gravity” is coming now. What’s the third one?
“Reminds Me” is going to be the single that comes out right as the record is released.
That is your duet with Katie Gavin, of Muna. Why did you pick her to be your vocal counterpart on that song?
Well, Tony produced her (solo) record and Will engineered it, and of course my world was being opened up to a ton of amazing musicians that they use. I kind of fell in love with Katie’s voice and was trying to come up with something a little less obvious when we wanted to do a duet and we were thinking about voices. Tony actually suggested, “What about Katie?” I’m like, “Oh, that’s a great idea.” The idea is to turn it on its nose a little bit, and instead of it being a traditional love song, let it just be a love song. And particularly in these times when rights are being challenged and stripped away, I thought this is a wonderful opportunity to show that love is love and it shows up in all sorts of different ways, and we should celebrate the all of it.
You’ve said this album includes some songs that represent a long period of time in your life. When you were introducing the new songs at your Masonic Lodge show, there were breakup songs and there were songs about the flush of love, and they all seemed so fresh. But when you were doing the love songs, I thought, well, maybe these came earlier, in the more idyllic stages of the relationship that generated the breakup songs. And then I realized, no, the more upbeat songs reflect a subsequent relationship.
Yeah, that’s an old relationship, the breakup songs. Actually, there was almost an entire record of breakup songs. I had sort of put them away for a long time and then played a lot of them for Tony and Will. But upon hearing them back again, I was like, “I don’t want to give that any more attention.” Plus it was so long ago, I didn’t feel any attachment to the songs anymore, and quite frankly, they weren’t that good. So I had a moment of “Oh shit, now I have to go and write a bunch more material,” when I thought I was ready to make a record. But as it turned out it, the vibe was so creative that it was really quite easy to take a number of song ideas that were just sort of percolating and finish them.
Everybody loves a good breakup song, even if we haven’t broken up in a while. “Better Broken” counts in that category, it seems like.
Oh, absolutely, yeah. But that’s about really recognizing that being on the other side of it is so much sweeter, and that we don’t get to that place in our lives unscathed. You have to go through hard things and challenges and struggles to come out on the other side. The hope is you’re better for it and you learn from it and you move on and make better choices.
Then there the songs that are a little bit topical, or at least more societally oriented. You mentioned that you had a hesitation about speaking up in a song because we are in a time where everything is under a microscope and people have instantaneous reactions that can blow up. But in spite of however you were thinking about that, you put songs on the album like “One in a Long Line.” Your daughters are on that song, which is interesting.
Well, it’s talking about how women’s rights are being stripped away, and it’s sort of my anger and frustration at witnessing this and going, OK, what’s my place in this as a mother, as a woman? As a songwriter, I have a platform and I have an opinion about this, and this is how I choose to voice it. And the fact that I had both my daughters on there … I’m no longer of childbearing years, but my daughters are, and I want them to have agency and choice over their bodies and what happens to them, as I do for all women. So that song for me was an opportunity to speak out, and to have my daughters on it was beautiful and amazing.
You know, it’s generational as I talk about all the things our mothers and their mothers before them struggled with and fought for, for the freedoms that we kind of have taken for granted today, up until this point, where things are shifting and changing once again, sadly. So, yeah, I felt like this was a important thing for me to talk about and be open about. And “Rise” is another one of those same things.
But, you know, I’m really optimistic and a hopeful person and I always try and look for the good in people, and that’s an important thing for me to continue to do even when I’m angry or upset or I disagree with what people are doing or saying. Continuing to search for the humanity in people, I think, is the only way. If we just sit on opposite ends of the spectrum and point fingers and are angry with each other, I don’t think anything’s gonna progress forward. We have to build bridges and figure out how to communicate and have to find the humanity in each other. I mean, maybe that sounds a little bit woo-woo and utopian right now, but I really do believe that that’s the only way through. And so I am continuing to be hopeful and try and see the good in people and try and find commonalities instead of continually selling division, because I just don’t think that gets us anywhere.
For all the hope of finding commonality, does this feel like a time where people who are Canadian are especially proud to be Canadian, given what’s happening further south?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I’ve always been a proud Canadian. We have our challenges, for sure, as do all, but I think the fundamental concepts of our society are pretty amazing and still pretty strong. And I do think that some of the stuff that’s going on in the States has really galvanized us together as Canadians. We have, as I said, a lot of issues as well, and a lot of division happening, but this in some ways has brought us together, and I’m very happy that that’s happening.
But again, people ask me, “Are you gonna boycott touring the States because of this?” I’m like, no, there’s lots of good people all over the world and lots of good people in America, and these are my fans. Why would I stop spreading good energy and joy and love and humanity and all the things that I care about and want to support? We need to keep building bridges, and I think music does that: It brings people together who might have very different opinions, but for a moment we can all be reminded that we’re pretty basic, and ultimately we do need together to survive. We need to figure out a way through together.
Sarah McLachlan
Kharen Hill
There is a Lilith Fair documentary coming out (premiering at the Toronto Film Festival on Sept. 17, debuting on Hulu Sept. 21). Is it fair to guess you participated in that, and how do you feel about it?
I did, and I am deeply, deeply proud of it. I think that Ally (Pankiw, the director) and the team did an incredible job and it really accurately depicts the challenges, the excitement, the joy, all of it. it’s just so, so, so well done. And for me watching it, I just feel immense pride for getting to be part of it.
Brandi Carlile has her all-women festival in Mexico every year, Girls Just Wanna Weekend, and always cites her desire to keep the spirit of Lilith Fair alive, and it’s just something we still hear from a lot of women performers generally.
Which is awesome, and that’s part of the beautiful legacy of it. You know, it continues on. It continues on in Taylor Swift having women open up for her, as well as what Brandi is doing. It’s just about creating communities for all of us to be who we are and how we want to show up in the world. And, yeah, I think it’s wonderful, and Brandi’s an amazing advocate.
Will there be a “Better Broken” tour happening sooner rather than later?
I sure hope so. Yeah, I think we’ve got some shows booked. But I am doing a “Fumbling” anniversary tour, a repeat, because I got sick last year and I couldn’t perform, so I had to cancel the whole tour. But I’m gonna do that this fall, into November, and then I’m gonna come and do some shows in the States that are “Broken.”
All right, so it’s still possible to get in on some “Fumbling” anniversary action if we wanted to?
Yep. Come to Canada [where the tour continues Oct. 15-Nov. 9]. Come to your friendly neighbors to the north.
